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Green guerillas target 4x4s
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| Rav 4 owner Philip Norris - click on the link at the bottom of the story to see the notice in full |
A green guerrilla movement which claimed to have attacked 32 4x4 vehicles in Oxford has urged more activists to follow its lead.
The anonymous group claimed it let down tyres on cars in the city during a night of action last week to protest against global warming.
Police are currently checking links with European anarchists responsible for more than 1,000 identical incidents in Sweden last year and attacks in Edinburgh in March.
At least eight 4x4 owners in Marston and Headington reported to police they were victims of the vandalism.
The activists claim, via websites such as direct action site Earth First, that they targeted 32 vehicles.
Philip Norris, 49, of Weldon Road, Marston, owns a Toyota Rav 4 and was one of many motorists whose tyres were let down last Thursday.
He said: "People want to make a protest which is fair enough, but it defeats the point when I have to run the engine for half an hour, and use a pump plugged into the cigarette lighter, to inflate my tyres. It isn't going to stop me using my car. I do not think this is kids just messing around, this is more serious."
Other incidents were reported to police at Ferry Road, Nicholson Road and Raymund Road in Marston and Grays Road, Jack Straw's Lane, Southfield Road and Staunton Road in Head- ington.
The Oxford Mail found at least three more victims in Ferry Road. In each case, tyres were deflated and letters left on windscreens.
This anonymous posting can be found across the Internet. It includes: "Up to 32 SUV (Sports Utility Vehicles) owners awoke to discover that their destructive vehicles had been disabled.
"Using the 'mung bean trick', whereby a bean is inserted into the valve of a tyre before the cap is screwed back on, tyres were let down in Marston, Headington, and the highly affluent area of Summertown."
City councillor Sid Phelps, chairman of Oxford Green Party, said: "Let's not get too het up over this - it is quite inconvenient for people to have their tyres let down, but global warming caused by SUVs is pretty inconvenient for the rest of us."
Ch Insp Jack Malhi said: "Although we live in a democracy and respect the views and opinions of others, I would like to remind people that by taking the law into one's own hands and damaging other people's property is an unacceptable crime."
6:39am Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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CommentPosted by: r, east oxford on 7:50am Wed 23 Jul 08
Well, Mr Phelps promoting the cause of some cowards skulking around in the dark, letting down tyres of no doubt hard working tax paying family cars. Ain't gonna get my vote.
When are you going to inform these idiots, now doubt you probably know them, that every Luxury car, Sports car, Bus, Train, Boat, Plane, clapped out Taxi and the vast majority of older cars are dirtier than most SUV's.
Or is this moral stance against the perceived persona of a 4x4. driver?
Well, Mr Phelps promoting the cause of some cowards skulking around in the dark, letting down tyres of no doubt hard working tax paying family cars. Ain't gonna get my vote.
When are you going to inform these idiots, now doubt you probably know them, that every Luxury car, Sports car, Bus, Train, Boat, Plane, clapped out Taxi and the vast majority of older cars are dirtier than most SUV's.
Or is this moral stance against the perceived persona of a 4x4. driver?
Posted by: Eddy Grundy, Ambridge on 7:57am Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote]City councillor Sid Phelps, chairman of Oxford Green Party, said: "Let's not get too het up over this - it is quite inconvenient for people to have their tyres let down, but global warming caused by SUVs is pretty inconvenient for the rest of us."[/quote]
I DO hope this quote was taken out of context as there is no condemnation of this/those idiot(s) who go round slashing tyres of 4 x 4's. Not too sure about calling them an anonymous group as this COULD be a single idiot.
I would call myself a "greenie" but deplore such criminal actions.
City councillor Sid Phelps, chairman of Oxford Green Party, said: "Let's not get too het up over this - it is quite inconvenient for people to have their tyres let down, but global warming caused by SUVs is pretty inconvenient for the rest of us."
I DO hope this quote was taken out of context as there is no condemnation of this/those idiot(s) who go round slashing tyres of 4 x 4's. Not too sure about calling them an anonymous group as this COULD be a single idiot.
I would call myself a "greenie" but deplore such criminal actions.
Posted by: r, east oxford on 8:08am Wed 23 Jul 08
What if driver jumped into their SUV not realizing his Tyres were flat, skidded out of control and something horrendous happened. Would Mr Phelps be telling everyone not to get to 'het' up then?
What if driver jumped into their SUV not realizing his Tyres were flat, skidded out of control and something horrendous happened. Would Mr Phelps be telling everyone not to get to 'het' up then?
Posted by: Not alan page, Not in a Coffee Shop! on 8:23am Wed 23 Jul 08
"and the highly affluent area of Summertown."
Alan, you said it was full of Coffee Shops!
Obviously not, the [bold]affluent's[/bold] have beaten a path there.
No, not a mis-spelling; the word should not begin with 'E'.
Costa Coffee anyone?
"and the highly affluent area of Summertown."
Alan, you said it was full of Coffee Shops!
Obviously not, the
affluent's have beaten a path there.
No, not a mis-spelling; the word should not begin with 'E'.
Costa Coffee anyone?
Posted by: Anton Deck, Oxford on 8:30am Wed 23 Jul 08
Whilst I think we should all be working hard to do our bit for the enviroment. Some 4x4's actually put out less emissions than many "family" cars, so this is basically a PR stunt (I don't own and never have owned a 4x4). I would have thought a more subtle way of perhaps showing the owners of some vehicles how their vehicles emissions compared to something more efficient would have been more helpful, but alas would not have grabbed the headlines.
Whilst I think we should all be working hard to do our bit for the enviroment. Some 4x4's actually put out less emissions than many "family" cars, so this is basically a PR stunt (I don't own and never have owned a 4x4). I would have thought a more subtle way of perhaps showing the owners of some vehicles how their vehicles emissions compared to something more efficient would have been more helpful, but alas would not have grabbed the headlines.
Posted by: jen, oxford on 8:33am Wed 23 Jul 08
Why the hell are the police not doing more about this? I don't drive a 4x4 but I still know that it is wrong for these people to vandalise other peoples property.
And as for Sid Phelps saying that people shouldn't get too het up about it, what if one of those people whose tyres have been let down, needs to get to a hospital or a sick relative in the middle of the night?
Who the hell gave him and his followers the right to do this? He should be sacked if this is his attitude.
Why the hell are the police not doing more about this? I don't drive a 4x4 but I still know that it is wrong for these people to vandalise other peoples property.
And as for Sid Phelps saying that people shouldn't get too het up about it, what if one of those people whose tyres have been let down, needs to get to a hospital or a sick relative in the middle of the night?
Who the hell gave him and his followers the right to do this? He should be sacked if this is his attitude.
Posted by: John, Oxford on 8:37am Wed 23 Jul 08
So Counciller Sid Felcher finds 4x4s causing global warming inconvienient - the man is an idiot . The working classes flying to Spain by BMI or easy jet contribute more to global warming than than all the 4x4s in the UK . Why not let the tyres down on all the aircraft at heathrow .
So Counciller Sid Felcher finds 4x4s causing global warming inconvienient - the man is an idiot . The working classes flying to Spain by BMI or easy jet contribute more to global warming than than all the 4x4s in the UK . Why not let the tyres down on all the aircraft at heathrow .
Posted by: BB, North Oxford on 8:38am Wed 23 Jul 08
It's all very well moaning about the petrol consumption of 4x4's but it is an obvious fact that people carriers and larger cars like BMW's, Mercs, Chrsylers etc all do the same MPG and equally contribute to global warming. This is constantly ignored. I bet there are more larger engine cars in Oxford than 4x4's, and most of which are used to ferry kids to a school that is within walking distance.
I used to own a 4x4 and it was equal on petrol consumption to my Ford family car. Reduce global warming with facts and sustained arguments, not knives and flat tyres. Cowards.
It's all very well moaning about the petrol consumption of 4x4's but it is an obvious fact that people carriers and larger cars like BMW's, Mercs, Chrsylers etc all do the same MPG and equally contribute to global warming. This is constantly ignored. I bet there are more larger engine cars in Oxford than 4x4's, and most of which are used to ferry kids to a school that is within walking distance.
I used to own a 4x4 and it was equal on petrol consumption to my Ford family car. Reduce global warming with facts and sustained arguments, not knives and flat tyres. Cowards.
Posted by: Adam, Oxford on 9:02am Wed 23 Jul 08
How cowardly to pick on easy targets. What are they trying to prove by this?
I hate these kind of actions, they aren't protests they are a simple juvinile way for these 'Green types' to pretend they are fighting a just cause. If this is their way of protesting against so called global warming then (excuse the pun) they are 'fair weather' activists!
They should be outside airports eg demonstrating in the open like grown ups, do they really think that if someone let my tyres down on my car then I would change it?
How cowardly to pick on easy targets. What are they trying to prove by this?
I hate these kind of actions, they aren't protests they are a simple juvinile way for these 'Green types' to pretend they are fighting a just cause. If this is their way of protesting against so called global warming then (excuse the pun) they are 'fair weather' activists!
They should be outside airports eg demonstrating in the open like grown ups, do they really think that if someone let my tyres down on my car then I would change it?
Posted by: M, Oxford on 9:03am Wed 23 Jul 08
I drive a 5 door hatchback diesel which gets less mileage to the gallon than my mother's landrover (she lives on a farm in Wales) Modern 4X4s are no less efficient than some of the powerful estates out there, targeting them for green reasons is pointless.
To be honest, if I found someone doing this to my 4X4 I get in my big 4X4 and run the stupid idiot over and claim I couldn't control the car as I was unaware the tyres had been let down by an idiot.
I drive a 5 door hatchback diesel which gets less mileage to the gallon than my mother's landrover (she lives on a farm in Wales) Modern 4X4s are no less efficient than some of the powerful estates out there, targeting them for green reasons is pointless.
To be honest, if I found someone doing this to my 4X4 I get in my big 4X4 and run the stupid idiot over and claim I couldn't control the car as I was unaware the tyres had been let down by an idiot.
Posted by: Tasha, Witney on 9:30am Wed 23 Jul 08
"People want to make a protest which is fair enough, but it defeats the point when I have to run the engine for half an hour, and use a pump plugged into the cigarette lighter, to inflate my tyres."
Erm....can't he use a footpump, or would that be too much like hard work?
"People want to make a protest which is fair enough, but it defeats the point when I have to run the engine for half an hour, and use a pump plugged into the cigarette lighter, to inflate my tyres."
Erm....can't he use a footpump, or would that be too much like hard work?
Posted by: Bogota Bob, Cook Islands on 9:43am Wed 23 Jul 08
This is incredibly naive of this group of thugs/vandals. Genuine causes are filled with people who support any cause to start a fight. They are no different to the thugs that merge with genuine football fans to start fights and hurt those they dont like.
I dont like 4x4 cars myself, and I dont see the point of them as anything other than a large ego extension but as a knowledgeable person about cars, I know that many of them like the Toyota Rav4 are no worse on emissions than MPVs, or regular saloon cars or sports cars with big engines or the numerous big vans on the road.
More importantly it is the high use all cars which causes the carbon emissions, not any one kind of vehicle or a media perpitrated ignorant stereotype against a particular type of vehicle.
Less use of cars will cut carbon emissions more than getting rid of a few 4x4s.
Shame these thugs are too ignorant to realise, and shame on the green party councillor for supporting mindless "green gorillas" using the environment as a licence to practice hatred.
This is incredibly naive of this group of thugs/vandals. Genuine causes are filled with people who support any cause to start a fight. They are no different to the thugs that merge with genuine football fans to start fights and hurt those they dont like.
I dont like 4x4 cars myself, and I dont see the point of them as anything other than a large ego extension but as a knowledgeable person about cars, I know that many of them like the Toyota Rav4 are no worse on emissions than MPVs, or regular saloon cars or sports cars with big engines or the numerous big vans on the road.
More importantly it is the high use all cars which causes the carbon emissions, not any one kind of vehicle or a media perpitrated ignorant stereotype against a particular type of vehicle.
Less use of cars will cut carbon emissions more than getting rid of a few 4x4s.
Shame these thugs are too ignorant to realise, and shame on the green party councillor for supporting mindless "green gorillas" using the environment as a licence to practice hatred.
Posted by: 4x4 driver, WITNEY on 9:48am Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Tasha[/bold] wrote:
"People want to make a protest which is fair enough, but it defeats the point when I have to run the engine for half an hour, and use a pump plugged into the cigarette lighter, to inflate my tyres." Erm....can't he use a footpump, or would that be too much like hard work? [/quote] I'd like to see you stand outside and use a foot pump to inflate 4 tyres on a 4x4!!!
What pathetic idiots!
I live in a built up area and own a 4x4 and use it for the school run as well as my commute to work, but I also use it to tow a carvan for family holidays and to travel to motocross events which are often in fields that require a 4x4 to gain access to!
What next? are they going to start killing cows as they generate too many gases that contribute to so called global warming!
Look back through history - the world changes, thats just the way it is look at the ice age etc - prehaps it was the dinosaurs farting or something that caused the pollution back then?
Tasha wrote:
"People want to make a protest which is fair enough, but it defeats the point when I have to run the engine for half an hour, and use a pump plugged into the cigarette lighter, to inflate my tyres." Erm....can't he use a footpump, or would that be too much like hard work?
I'd like to see you stand outside and use a foot pump to inflate 4 tyres on a 4x4!!!
What pathetic idiots!
I live in a built up area and own a 4x4 and use it for the school run as well as my commute to work, but I also use it to tow a carvan for family holidays and to travel to motocross events which are often in fields that require a 4x4 to gain access to!
What next? are they going to start killing cows as they generate too many gases that contribute to so called global warming!
Look back through history - the world changes, thats just the way it is look at the ice age etc - prehaps it was the dinosaurs farting or something that caused the pollution back then?
Posted by: JB on 9:56am Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote]Look back through history - the world changes, thats just the way it is look at the ice age etc - prehaps it was the dinosaurs farting or something that caused the pollution back then?[/quote]
The World is indeed changing, are you really sure that we're having no influence on those changes? Really, really sure?
Look back through history - the world changes, thats just the way it is look at the ice age etc - prehaps it was the dinosaurs farting or something that caused the pollution back then?
The World is indeed changing, are you really sure that we're having no influence on those changes? Really, really sure?
Posted by: Jeremy McKenzie, Oxford on 10:02am Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote]People want to make a protest which is fair enough, but it defeats the point when I have to run the engine for half an hour, and use a pump plugged into the cigarette lighter, to inflate my tyres.[/quote]
Whatever the issue, telling wee porkies won't help. You don't need your engine on to use those pumps and it only takes about 15 minutes. That won't run down your battery, which will recharge on the gas-guzzling drive to work.
Sorry - I didn't mean to take sides but couldn't help myself.
GO GREENIES - TARGET THE SELFISH
People want to make a protest which is fair enough, but it defeats the point when I have to run the engine for half an hour, and use a pump plugged into the cigarette lighter, to inflate my tyres.
Whatever the issue, telling wee porkies won't help. You don't need your engine on to use those pumps and it only takes about 15 minutes. That won't run down your battery, which will recharge on the gas-guzzling drive to work.
Sorry - I didn't mean to take sides but couldn't help myself.
GO GREENIES - TARGET THE SELFISH
Posted by: Toad, Toad Hall on 10:13am Wed 23 Jul 08
Under the law now, touch my motor, Greenies, and I will KILL you.
Under the law now, touch my motor, Greenies, and I will KILL you.
Posted by: Chris W on 10:15am Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote]What next? are they going to start killing cows as they generate too many gases that contribute to so called global warming![/quote]
You're not comparing eggs with eggs, I think they're suggesting that we try to cut down on [bold]unnecessary[/bold] contributions that are within our control.
This action is not the way to go about it though.
Trouble is, some people are so pig-headed that they'll never listen until it's too late.
I guess 4x4 vehicles are picked on because often, [bold]not always[/bold] but often, they are indicative of a selfish mindset, I'll give you a trivial example - on many occasions I've come back to find a 4x4 parked so close to my car that I can hardly open my door, plus they've dented my door opening theirs, no note on the windscreen, no sign of any consideration for others, no manners. If owners don't have the conscience to do the right thing in this situation right under their noses then I think it's highly likely that they won't have given any thought to the bigger environmental picture, don't you?
What next? are they going to start killing cows as they generate too many gases that contribute to so called global warming!
You're not comparing eggs with eggs, I think they're suggesting that we try to cut down on
unnecessary contributions that are within our control.
This action is not the way to go about it though.
Trouble is, some people are so pig-headed that they'll never listen until it's too late.
I guess 4x4 vehicles are picked on because often,
not always but often, they are indicative of a selfish mindset, I'll give you a trivial example - on many occasions I've come back to find a 4x4 parked so close to my car that I can hardly open my door, plus they've dented my door opening theirs, no note on the windscreen, no sign of any consideration for others, no manners. If owners don't have the conscience to do the right thing in this situation right under their noses then I think it's highly likely that they won't have given any thought to the bigger environmental picture, don't you?
Posted by: Terry Fied, of anti capitalist lies on 10:23am Wed 23 Jul 08
How about some facts courtesy of What Car magazine.
BMW X3 2.0D SE
MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km
Ford Galaxy 2.0D MPV
MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km
Ford Mondeo 2.0 (petrol) hatchback
MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 189
VW Golf 2.0 GTI
MPG 44.8 c/o rating of 194
BMW 130i (petrol)
MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 197
So a small car with a big engine, a medium car with a medium engine and a big car with a medium engine are really hardly greener than each other or a mid size diesel 4x4. [bold]THAT IS FACT[/bold]
How about some facts courtesy of What Car magazine.
BMW X3 2.0D SE
MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km
Ford Galaxy 2.0D MPV
MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km
Ford Mondeo 2.0 (petrol) hatchback
MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 189
VW Golf 2.0 GTI
MPG 44.8 c/o rating of 194
BMW 130i (petrol)
MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 197
So a small car with a big engine, a medium car with a medium engine and a big car with a medium engine are really hardly greener than each other or a mid size diesel 4x4.
THAT IS FACT Posted by: C on 10:32am Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote]Genuine causes are filled with people who support any cause to start a fight. They are no different to the thugs that merge with genuine football fans to start fights and hurt those they dont like.[/quote]
Thanks for that analogy. That sums up the problem perfectly, and the attitude of those giving them their support.
Genuine causes are filled with people who support any cause to start a fight. They are no different to the thugs that merge with genuine football fans to start fights and hurt those they dont like.
Thanks for that analogy. That sums up the problem perfectly, and the attitude of those giving them their support.
Posted by: DanOxford on 10:39am Wed 23 Jul 08
First a councillor tels us not to get 'het up' about people interfering with equipment vital to the safety of [bold]OUR[/bold] vehicles, then the Police remind us of the need to be 'understanding'!!!
Get rid of these sanctimoniuos little pr*cks in the 'environmental' lobby and return the Police to being a 'force' not a 'service'.
There's far too much 'tolerance' in the UK (and Oxford in particular) and we're continualy held to ransom by self- righteous, undemocratic, totalitarian meddlers, backed up by the State.
First a councillor tels us not to get 'het up' about people interfering with equipment vital to the safety of
OUR vehicles, then the Police remind us of the need to be 'understanding'!!!
Get rid of these sanctimoniuos little pr*cks in the 'environmental' lobby and return the Police to being a 'force' not a 'service'.
There's far too much 'tolerance' in the UK (and Oxford in particular) and we're continualy held to ransom by self- righteous, undemocratic, totalitarian meddlers, backed up by the State.
Posted by: ras on 10:47am Wed 23 Jul 08
I would just like to point out that some 4x4's have been converted to LPG. Can these idiots tell the difference by just looking at the vehicle from the outside? - I doubt it!!!
I would just like to point out that some 4x4's have been converted to LPG. Can these idiots tell the difference by just looking at the vehicle from the outside? - I doubt it!!!
Posted by: Phil, Oxford on 11:06am Wed 23 Jul 08
Similar actions were carried out in France by 'les dégonflés'. The judge hearing their case found their actions to be legal.
However I think the cost of fuel, more than anything else, will make people think twice before consuming more oil than necessary.
As fuel can only get more expensvie, urban 4 x 4's and alll 'gas guzzlers' will thankfully become a rarer sight.
Similar actions were carried out in France by 'les dégonflés'. The judge hearing their case found their actions to be legal.
However I think the cost of fuel, more than anything else, will make people think twice before consuming more oil than necessary.
As fuel can only get more expensvie, urban 4 x 4's and alll 'gas guzzlers' will thankfully become a rarer sight.
Posted by: JB on 11:12am Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Terry Fied[/bold] wrote:
How about some facts courtesy of What Car magazine. BMW X3 2.0D SE MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km Ford Galaxy 2.0D MPV MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km Ford Mondeo 2.0 (petrol) hatchback MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 189 VW Golf 2.0 GTI MPG 44.8 c/o rating of 194 BMW 130i (petrol) MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 197 So a small car with a big engine, a medium car with a medium engine and a big car with a medium engine are really hardly greener than each other or a mid size diesel 4x4. [bold]THAT IS FACT[/bold] [/quote] Just curious to know why you chose the 'extra urban' figures?
Looks like we're going backwards in terms of fuel efficiency, my 6-year-old VW 1.9 TDi does 61.4 MPG (extra urban) and is rated at 149 g/km! (it'll still get to 60 in under 10 seconds!)
Terry Fied wrote:
How about some facts courtesy of What Car magazine. BMW X3 2.0D SE MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km Ford Galaxy 2.0D MPV MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km Ford Mondeo 2.0 (petrol) hatchback MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 189 VW Golf 2.0 GTI MPG 44.8 c/o rating of 194 BMW 130i (petrol) MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 197 So a small car with a big engine, a medium car with a medium engine and a big car with a medium engine are really hardly greener than each other or a mid size diesel 4x4. THAT IS FACT
Just curious to know why you chose the 'extra urban' figures?
Looks like we're going backwards in terms of fuel efficiency, my 6-year-old VW 1.9 TDi does 61.4 MPG (extra urban) and is rated at 149 g/km! (it'll still get to 60 in under 10 seconds!)
Posted by: British Patriot, Lands End to John O\'Groats on 11:18am Wed 23 Jul 08
Greens are lefties who think they are up on the moral high ground. These ridiculous activities indicate otherwise.
We are all mixed up in this ****, one way or another though. And terrorists always pick on soft targets.
The only possible way out of these problems is the eventual election of a truly nationalist government. And that's a slim chance against the all-encompassing might of the likes of Blair and the Bilderbergers.
Greens are lefties who think they are up on the moral high ground. These ridiculous activities indicate otherwise.
We are all mixed up in this ****, one way or another though. And terrorists always pick on soft targets.
The only possible way out of these problems is the eventual election of a truly nationalist government. And that's a slim chance against the all-encompassing might of the likes of Blair and the Bilderbergers.
Posted by: Tony Brett, Oxford on 11:21am Wed 23 Jul 08
Sid Phelps is not a City Councillor. He stood down at the 2008 elections in May.
I'm not condoning the actions at all but does letting tyres down actually damage them if they are pumped up again fairly quickly?
Sid Phelps is not a City Councillor. He stood down at the 2008 elections in May.
I'm not condoning the actions at all but does letting tyres down actually damage them if they are pumped up again fairly quickly?
Posted by: British Patriot, Lands End to John O\\\'Groats on 11:21am Wed 23 Jul 08
Greens are lefties who think they are up on the moral high ground. These ridiculous activities indicate otherwise.
We are all mixed up in this ****, one way or another though. And terrorists always pick on soft targets.
The only possible way out of these problems is the eventual election of a truly nationalist government. And that's a slim chance against the all-encompassing might of the likes of Blair and the Bilderbergers.
Greens are lefties who think they are up on the moral high ground. These ridiculous activities indicate otherwise.
We are all mixed up in this ****, one way or another though. And terrorists always pick on soft targets.
The only possible way out of these problems is the eventual election of a truly nationalist government. And that's a slim chance against the all-encompassing might of the likes of Blair and the Bilderbergers.
Posted by: jj, oxfordshire on 11:40am Wed 23 Jul 08
Come on SUV's only produce a tiny amount of CO2 compared with one of the many lorries on our roads, from UK & Europe. I do not think it will make much difference if everyone in the UK stopped using them. Any one time on say the A34 there are a lot more lorries than SUV's, I dont have one by the way.
Come on SUV's only produce a tiny amount of CO2 compared with one of the many lorries on our roads, from UK & Europe. I do not think it will make much difference if everyone in the UK stopped using them. Any one time on say the A34 there are a lot more lorries than SUV's, I dont have one by the way.
Posted by: David, Headington on 11:56am Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Tony Brett[/bold] wrote:
Sid Phelps is not a City Councillor. He stood down at the 2008 elections in May. I'm not condoning the actions at all but does letting tyres down actually damage them if they are pumped up again fairly quickly? [/quote] Tony,
I feel you are not in touch with the real world, yet again!
What if you are on emergency/medical/pu
blic service call; ie Fire Brigade/Ambulance/Do
ctor; have to take children to a hospital/Doctor appointment. Or horror of horrors have to get to work! Imagine all other scenarios.
Would you be impressed if you went out to your vehicle and found it with flat tyres.
I can only guess you would accept it and take the 30(sic) minutes it takes to pump up your tyres; subject of course to having the compressed air and system available.
Please do not make very superfluous statements which make no common and logical sense!
This is unacceptable behaviour by all/and or person involved. Please condemn rather than, not condone, this course of action.
Thank you.
Dave.
Tony Brett wrote:
Sid Phelps is not a City Councillor. He stood down at the 2008 elections in May. I'm not condoning the actions at all but does letting tyres down actually damage them if they are pumped up again fairly quickly?
Tony,
I feel you are not in touch with the real world, yet again!
What if you are on emergency/medical/pu
blic service call; ie Fire Brigade/Ambulance/Do
ctor; have to take children to a hospital/Doctor appointment. Or horror of horrors have to get to work! Imagine all other scenarios.
Would you be impressed if you went out to your vehicle and found it with flat tyres.
I can only guess you would accept it and take the 30(sic) minutes it takes to pump up your tyres; subject of course to having the compressed air and system available.
Please do not make very superfluous statements which make no common and logical sense!
This is unacceptable behaviour by all/and or person involved. Please condemn rather than, not condone, this course of action.
Thank you.
Dave.
Posted by: Terry Fied on 12:03pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]JB[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Terry Fied[/bold] wrote: How about some facts courtesy of What Car magazine. BMW X3 2.0D SE MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km Ford Galaxy 2.0D MPV MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km Ford Mondeo 2.0 (petrol) hatchback MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 189 VW Golf 2.0 GTI MPG 44.8 c/o rating of 194 BMW 130i (petrol) MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 197 So a small car with a big engine, a medium car with a medium engine and a big car with a medium engine are really hardly greener than each other or a mid size diesel 4x4. [bold]THAT IS FACT[/bold] [/quote] Just curious to know why you chose the 'extra urban' figures? Looks like we're going backwards in terms of fuel efficiency, my 6-year-old VW 1.9 TDi does 61.4 MPG (extra urban) and is rated at 149 g/km! (it'll still get to 60 in under 10 seconds!)[/quote] No real reason, but the point shows that some 4x4's are not significantly better or worse than cars which are not targeted. I'm with Bogota Bob on this one, I dont see a point to soft road 4x4s (an old Landrover maybe for serious off road driving)
The media has a lot to blame in stigmatising 4x4's whilst choosing to ignore sports cars. Have you ever seen how bad the fuel consumption on a Vauxhall Monaro VX8 is? Around town they can struggle to make double figures on the MPG! Are they a target?
JB wrote:
Terry Fied wrote: How about some facts courtesy of What Car magazine. BMW X3 2.0D SE MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km Ford Galaxy 2.0D MPV MPG 51.4 c/o rating of 172 g/km Ford Mondeo 2.0 (petrol) hatchback MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 189 VW Golf 2.0 GTI MPG 44.8 c/o rating of 194 BMW 130i (petrol) MPG 47.1 c/o rating of 197 So a small car with a big engine, a medium car with a medium engine and a big car with a medium engine are really hardly greener than each other or a mid size diesel 4x4. THAT IS FACT
Just curious to know why you chose the 'extra urban' figures? Looks like we're going backwards in terms of fuel efficiency, my 6-year-old VW 1.9 TDi does 61.4 MPG (extra urban) and is rated at 149 g/km! (it'll still get to 60 in under 10 seconds!)
No real reason, but the point shows that some 4x4's are not significantly better or worse than cars which are not targeted. I'm with Bogota Bob on this one, I dont see a point to soft road 4x4s (an old Landrover maybe for serious off road driving)
The media has a lot to blame in stigmatising 4x4's whilst choosing to ignore sports cars. Have you ever seen how bad the fuel consumption on a Vauxhall Monaro VX8 is? Around town they can struggle to make double figures on the MPG! Are they a target?
Posted by: Lou, oxford on 12:06pm Wed 23 Jul 08
I just wonder if the police would be as complacent about this if those people who had had their tyres let down decided to let down the tyres of people who own bikes, because the bikes get in their way?
I am not condoning that kind of behaviour, but surely if it's ok for one sector of the community to act in this way, then surely it is absolutely fine for others to take the law into their own hands and protest about other things that annoy them.
I just wonder if the police would be as complacent about this if those people who had had their tyres let down decided to let down the tyres of people who own bikes, because the bikes get in their way?
I am not condoning that kind of behaviour, but surely if it's ok for one sector of the community to act in this way, then surely it is absolutely fine for others to take the law into their own hands and protest about other things that annoy them.
Posted by: Mr Ison, England on 12:14pm Wed 23 Jul 08
Where is David Bellamy these days?
Where is David Bellamy these days?
Posted by: Barry Davies, Oxford on 12:20pm Wed 23 Jul 08
I'm a victim of this group of activists. I hope they are reading this as I would like to point out that I have my 4x4 due to my job, an agricultural vet. However I live centrally in Oxford. I had the inconvenience of having to call the AA the following morning to have my tyres pumped back up, but was also on call the previous night, so had I been called to an emergency, I would have been unable to attend. perhaps these people would prefer me to purchase a 2nd vehicle to drive out of town in before changing to my 4x4? Finally my previous vehicle, a ordinary 4 door estate did less mpg than my 4x4, so perhaps these people should get their facts straight before starting these campaigns. Lets hope that a farmer doesn't get 'too het up' when he loses livestock if I can't get to him in time, wouldn't you agree Mr Phelps?
I'm a victim of this group of activists. I hope they are reading this as I would like to point out that I have my 4x4 due to my job, an agricultural vet. However I live centrally in Oxford. I had the inconvenience of having to call the AA the following morning to have my tyres pumped back up, but was also on call the previous night, so had I been called to an emergency, I would have been unable to attend. perhaps these people would prefer me to purchase a 2nd vehicle to drive out of town in before changing to my 4x4? Finally my previous vehicle, a ordinary 4 door estate did less mpg than my 4x4, so perhaps these people should get their facts straight before starting these campaigns. Lets hope that a farmer doesn't get 'too het up' when he loses livestock if I can't get to him in time, wouldn't you agree Mr Phelps?
Posted by: DanOxford on 12:25pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Tony Brett[/bold] wrote:
Sid Phelps is not a City Councillor. He stood down at the 2008 elections in May. I'm not condoning the actions at all but does letting tyres down actually damage them if they are pumped up again fairly quickly? [/quote] I think you're rather missing the point that, in a democracy, one doesn't take it upon oneself to interfere with someone else's private property to demonstrate your political views.
I don't like cyclists swerving in front of me with no lights at night- can I then deflate the tires of all cycles I suspect of being used at night illegally?
Tony Brett wrote:
Sid Phelps is not a City Councillor. He stood down at the 2008 elections in May. I'm not condoning the actions at all but does letting tyres down actually damage them if they are pumped up again fairly quickly?
I think you're rather missing the point that, in a democracy, one doesn't take it upon oneself to interfere with someone else's private property to demonstrate your political views.
I don't like cyclists swerving in front of me with no lights at night- can I then deflate the tires of all cycles I suspect of being used at night illegally?
Posted by: Jason, Oxford on 12:30pm Wed 23 Jul 08
I can't wait to pick up my new Escalade which I've got coming over from the states. All that fuel in shipping, then lets not forget the 7.5 litre V8 sitting under the bonnet. see how you like that greenies
I can't wait to pick up my new Escalade which I've got coming over from the states. All that fuel in shipping, then lets not forget the 7.5 litre V8 sitting under the bonnet. see how you like that greenies
Posted by: Jason, Oxford on 12:31pm Wed 23 Jul 08
I can't wait to pick up my new Escalade which I've got coming over from the states. All that fuel in shipping, then lets not forget the 7.5 litre V8 sitting under the bonnet. see how you like that greenies. and if you think you can come and let my tyres down, please feel free. I love run-flats.
I can't wait to pick up my new Escalade which I've got coming over from the states. All that fuel in shipping, then lets not forget the 7.5 litre V8 sitting under the bonnet. see how you like that greenies. and if you think you can come and let my tyres down, please feel free. I love run-flats.
Posted by: r and still angry, east oxford on 12:54pm Wed 23 Jul 08
I wonder if Phelps's urban Gurilers should pick on the worst offending environmental motorists. the Invisible M.O.T. dodgers. Whilst they have no insurance, no doubt, leaky pipes, bald tyres, worn out brakes & NO ANNUAL EMISSION TESTS.
I can just imagine, how wonderful it would be if one these drivers hit a patch of diesel left by a worn out unregulated Bus. Then mounted the curb and squashed his shopping trolly as he made his way home.
I wonder if Phelps's urban Gurilers should pick on the worst offending environmental motorists. the Invisible M.O.T. dodgers. Whilst they have no insurance, no doubt, leaky pipes, bald tyres, worn out brakes & NO ANNUAL EMISSION TESTS.
I can just imagine, how wonderful it would be if one these drivers hit a patch of diesel left by a worn out unregulated Bus. Then mounted the curb and squashed his shopping trolly as he made his way home.
Posted by: Alan Page, Guildford on 1:04pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]John[/bold] wrote:
So Counciller Sid Felcher finds 4x4s causing global warming inconvienient - the man is an idiot . The working classes flying to Spain by BMI or easy jet contribute more to global warming than than all the 4x4s in the UK . Why not let the tyres down on all the aircraft at heathrow . [/quote] Or bourgeois businessmen on junkets blowing Cocaine out of every crevice buggering up the Columbian rainforests?
Even the trade in "Green" biofuels has done more to damage the enviroment through campaigns of rampant deforestation than anything else.
These idiots are so far off the mark they can only be bourgeois.
John wrote:
So Counciller Sid Felcher finds 4x4s causing global warming inconvienient - the man is an idiot . The working classes flying to Spain by BMI or easy jet contribute more to global warming than than all the 4x4s in the UK . Why not let the tyres down on all the aircraft at heathrow .
Or bourgeois businessmen on junkets blowing Cocaine out of every crevice buggering up the Columbian rainforests?
Even the trade in "Green" biofuels has done more to damage the enviroment through campaigns of rampant deforestation than anything else.
These idiots are so far off the mark they can only be bourgeois.
Posted by: Alan Page, Guildford on 1:09pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Phil[/bold] wrote:
Similar actions were carried out in France by 'les dégonflés'. The judge hearing their case found their actions to be legal. However I think the cost of fuel, more than anything else, will make people think twice before consuming more oil than necessary. As fuel can only get more expensvie, urban 4 x 4's and alll 'gas guzzlers' will thankfully become a rarer sight. [/quote] Now if the culprits had been council estate kids having a laugh, no doubt the full weight of the law would have descended mightily no doubt.
Phil wrote:
Similar actions were carried out in France by 'les dégonflés'. The judge hearing their case found their actions to be legal. However I think the cost of fuel, more than anything else, will make people think twice before consuming more oil than necessary. As fuel can only get more expensvie, urban 4 x 4's and alll 'gas guzzlers' will thankfully become a rarer sight.
Now if the culprits had been council estate kids having a laugh, no doubt the full weight of the law would have descended mightily no doubt.
Posted by: Alan Page, Guildford on 1:12pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Tony Brett[/bold] wrote:
Sid Phelps is not a City Councillor. He stood down at the 2008 elections in May. I'm not condoning the actions at all but does letting tyres down actually damage them if they are pumped up again fairly quickly? [/quote] It does if your a person who considers 30mph in built up areas to be an infringement of their civil rights and an insult to their car handling abilities.
The people who drive these cars are soooo important you see.They can usually be found waving copies of the Telegraph at red lights.
Tony Brett wrote:
Sid Phelps is not a City Councillor. He stood down at the 2008 elections in May. I'm not condoning the actions at all but does letting tyres down actually damage them if they are pumped up again fairly quickly?
It does if your a person who considers 30mph in built up areas to be an infringement of their civil rights and an insult to their car handling abilities.
The people who drive these cars are soooo important you see.They can usually be found waving copies of the Telegraph at red lights.
Posted by: Alan Page, Guildford on 1:15pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]DanOxford[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Tony Brett[/bold] wrote: Sid Phelps is not a City Councillor. He stood down at the 2008 elections in May. I'm not condoning the actions at all but does letting tyres down actually damage them if they are pumped up again fairly quickly? [/quote] I think you're rather missing the point that, in a democracy, one doesn't take it upon oneself to interfere with someone else's private property to demonstrate your political views. I don't like cyclists swerving in front of me with no lights at night- can I then deflate the tires of all cycles I suspect of being used at night illegally?[/quote] Case in point.
DanOxford wrote:
Tony Brett wrote: Sid Phelps is not a City Councillor. He stood down at the 2008 elections in May. I'm not condoning the actions at all but does letting tyres down actually damage them if they are pumped up again fairly quickly?
I think you're rather missing the point that, in a democracy, one doesn't take it upon oneself to interfere with someone else's private property to demonstrate your political views. I don't like cyclists swerving in front of me with no lights at night- can I then deflate the tires of all cycles I suspect of being used at night illegally?
Case in point.
Posted by: Rob on 1:18pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Jason[/bold] wrote:
I can't wait to pick up my new Escalade which I've got coming over from the states. All that fuel in shipping, then lets not forget the 7.5 litre V8 sitting under the bonnet. see how you like that greenies. and if you think you can come and let my tyres down, please feel free. I love run-flats.[/quote] Just a guess but are you what some might call "new money"?
Jason wrote:
I can't wait to pick up my new Escalade which I've got coming over from the states. All that fuel in shipping, then lets not forget the 7.5 litre V8 sitting under the bonnet. see how you like that greenies. and if you think you can come and let my tyres down, please feel free. I love run-flats.
Just a guess but are you what some might call "new money"?
Posted by: M, Oxford on 1:19pm Wed 23 Jul 08
"Or bourgeois businessmen on junkets blowing Cocaine out of every crevice buggering up the Columbian rainforests?
Even the trade in "Green" biofuels has done more to damage the enviroment through campaigns of rampant deforestation than anything else.
These idiots are so far off the mark they can only be bourgeois."
Do you just use the word bourgeois so people will think you're clever because you can spell it?
Don't ordinary working class people pollute the environment? Or is it only the people you disdain because they have to wear a tie to work? You numpty.
If you're so concerned with what's happening here in Oxford, why do you live in Guildford? Not the centre of the working class universe last time I had a look.
"Or bourgeois businessmen on junkets blowing Cocaine out of every crevice buggering up the Columbian rainforests?
Even the trade in "Green" biofuels has done more to damage the enviroment through campaigns of rampant deforestation than anything else.
These idiots are so far off the mark they can only be bourgeois."
Do you just use the word bourgeois so people will think you're clever because you can spell it?
Don't ordinary working class people pollute the environment? Or is it only the people you disdain because they have to wear a tie to work? You numpty.
If you're so concerned with what's happening here in Oxford, why do you live in Guildford? Not the centre of the working class universe last time I had a look.
Posted by: Alan Page, Guildford on 1:23pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]M[/bold] wrote:
"Or bourgeois businessmen on junkets blowing Cocaine out of every crevice buggering up the Columbian rainforests? Even the trade in "Green" biofuels has done more to damage the enviroment through campaigns of rampant deforestation than anything else. These idiots are so far off the mark they can only be bourgeois." Do you just use the word bourgeois so people will think you're clever because you can spell it? Don't ordinary working class people pollute the environment? Or is it only the people you disdain because they have to wear a tie to work? You numpty. If you're so concerned with what's happening here in Oxford, why do you live in Guildford? Not the centre of the working class universe last time I had a look.[/quote] Dear oh dear,
More middle class piffle!!!
Love flinging terms like "chav" around but don't like to be exposed to the same kind of treatment themselves.
So what are you objecting to in my post? Are you saying that the mass consumption of charlie by bourgeois charlies on business junkets is not impacting on the enviroment?
Very bourgeois.
M wrote:
"Or bourgeois businessmen on junkets blowing Cocaine out of every crevice buggering up the Columbian rainforests? Even the trade in "Green" biofuels has done more to damage the enviroment through campaigns of rampant deforestation than anything else. These idiots are so far off the mark they can only be bourgeois." Do you just use the word bourgeois so people will think you're clever because you can spell it? Don't ordinary working class people pollute the environment? Or is it only the people you disdain because they have to wear a tie to work? You numpty. If you're so concerned with what's happening here in Oxford, why do you live in Guildford? Not the centre of the working class universe last time I had a look.
Dear oh dear,
More middle class piffle!!!
Love flinging terms like "chav" around but don't like to be exposed to the same kind of treatment themselves.
So what are you objecting to in my post? Are you saying that the mass consumption of charlie by bourgeois charlies on business junkets is not impacting on the enviroment?
Very bourgeois.
Posted by: Johhny, Oxford on 1:24pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]DanOxford[/bold] wrote:
First a councillor tels us not to get 'het up' about people interfering with equipment vital to the safety of [bold]OUR[/bold] vehicles, then the Police remind us of the need to be 'understanding'!!! Get rid of these sanctimoniuos little pr*cks in the 'environmental' lobby and return the Police to being a 'force' not a 'service'. There's far too much 'tolerance' in the UK (and Oxford in particular) and we're continualy held to ransom by self- righteous, undemocratic, totalitarian meddlers, backed up by the State.[/quote] Come the revolution brother .
DanOxford wrote:
First a councillor tels us not to get 'het up' about people interfering with equipment vital to the safety of OUR vehicles, then the Police remind us of the need to be 'understanding'!!! Get rid of these sanctimoniuos little pr*cks in the 'environmental' lobby and return the Police to being a 'force' not a 'service'. There's far too much 'tolerance' in the UK (and Oxford in particular) and we're continualy held to ransom by self- righteous, undemocratic, totalitarian meddlers, backed up by the State.
Come the revolution brother .
Posted by: M, Oxford on 1:25pm Wed 23 Jul 08
Personally, I'm thinking of taking a leaf out of Clarkson's book. Buy myself a 30 year gas-guzzler and pay no road-tax. A whacking great Merc that pollutes much more because it was built well before we'd even figured out there was hole in the ozone layer.
The best part is, these delude plonkers are so stupid they won't even realise I'm filling the air with more emmisions than half a dozen 4X4s.
It's idiots like this that make me care less and less about the environment, because if it means they and their progeny are screwed too I'll sit in my huge antique merc engine running while endlessly spraying CFCs out of the window and burning tyres in my garden.
Personally, I'm thinking of taking a leaf out of Clarkson's book. Buy myself a 30 year gas-guzzler and pay no road-tax. A whacking great Merc that pollutes much more because it was built well before we'd even figured out there was hole in the ozone layer.
The best part is, these delude plonkers are so stupid they won't even realise I'm filling the air with more emmisions than half a dozen 4X4s.
It's idiots like this that make me care less and less about the environment, because if it means they and their progeny are screwed too I'll sit in my huge antique merc engine running while endlessly spraying CFCs out of the window and burning tyres in my garden.
Posted by: Alan Page, Guildford on 1:29pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]M[/bold] wrote:
Personally, I'm thinking of taking a leaf out of Clarkson's book. Buy myself a 30 year gas-guzzler and pay no road-tax. A whacking great Merc that pollutes much more because it was built well before we'd even figured out there was hole in the ozone layer. The best part is, these delude plonkers are so stupid they won't even realise I'm filling the air with more emmisions than half a dozen 4X4s. It's idiots like this that make me care less and less about the environment, because if it means they and their progeny are screwed too I'll sit in my huge antique merc engine running while endlessly spraying CFCs out of the window and burning tyres in my garden.[/quote] Wow, Sock it to 'em baby!!
Give it a couple of revs for me!!
That will show those goddam pinkos what true british pluck is all about.
This is the stuff we brits are made of, this is what the bulldog spirit is all about.
Churchill would be so proud!!
"Land of hope and glorrryy" etc etc
M wrote:
Personally, I'm thinking of taking a leaf out of Clarkson's book. Buy myself a 30 year gas-guzzler and pay no road-tax. A whacking great Merc that pollutes much more because it was built well before we'd even figured out there was hole in the ozone layer. The best part is, these delude plonkers are so stupid they won't even realise I'm filling the air with more emmisions than half a dozen 4X4s. It's idiots like this that make me care less and less about the environment, because if it means they and their progeny are screwed too I'll sit in my huge antique merc engine running while endlessly spraying CFCs out of the window and burning tyres in my garden.
Wow, Sock it to 'em baby!!
Give it a couple of revs for me!!
That will show those goddam pinkos what true british pluck is all about.
This is the stuff we brits are made of, this is what the bulldog spirit is all about.
Churchill would be so proud!!
"Land of hope and glorrryy" etc etc
Posted by: M, Oxford on 1:32pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Alan Page[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]M[/bold] wrote: \"Or bourgeois businessmen on junkets blowing Cocaine out of every crevice buggering up the Columbian rainforests? Even the trade in \"Green\" biofuels has done more to damage the enviroment through campaigns of rampant deforestation than anything else. These idiots are so far off the mark they can only be bourgeois.\" Do you just use the word bourgeois so people will think you\'re clever because you can spell it? Don\'t ordinary working class people pollute the environment? Or is it only the people you disdain because they have to wear a tie to work? You numpty. If you\'re so concerned with what\'s happening here in Oxford, why do you live in Guildford? Not the centre of the working class universe last time I had a look.[/quote] Dear oh dear, More middle class piffle!!! Love flinging terms like \"chav\" around but don\'t like to be exposed to the same kind of treatment themselves. So what are you objecting to in my post? Are you saying that the mass consumption of charlie by bourgeois charlies on business junkets is not impacting on the enviroment? Very bourgeois. [/quote] No Alan, you complete Michael, I'm just saying that everyone's as bad as the next person regardless of hopw much money their parents had when they grew up. Your class issues show you up to be as narrow-minded as the people you hate so much. Obviously you spend the whole day raving and slavering there in Surrey as you're surrounded by them.
And as my parents grew up working-class, my father a soldier until he left the army and worked his a**e off running his own business, my mother a special needs teacher until she retired, i find it laughable that you assume I'm middle class, is that I don't agree with you?
To be honest, if being bougeois means being as far away from you, then I'm more than happy to take that.
Alan Page wrote:
M wrote: \"Or bourgeois businessmen on junkets blowing Cocaine out of every crevice buggering up the Columbian rainforests? Even the trade in \"Green\" biofuels has done more to damage the enviroment through campaigns of rampant deforestation than anything else. These idiots are so far off the mark they can only be bourgeois.\" Do you just use the word bourgeois so people will think you\'re clever because you can spell it? Don\'t ordinary working class people pollute the environment? Or is it only the people you disdain because they have to wear a tie to work? You numpty. If you\'re so concerned with what\'s happening here in Oxford, why do you live in Guildford? Not the centre of the working class universe last time I had a look.
Dear oh dear, More middle class piffle!!! Love flinging terms like \"chav\" around but don\'t like to be exposed to the same kind of treatment themselves. So what are you objecting to in my post? Are you saying that the mass consumption of charlie by bourgeois charlies on business junkets is not impacting on the enviroment? Very bourgeois.
No Alan, you complete Michael, I'm just saying that everyone's as bad as the next person regardless of hopw much money their parents had when they grew up. Your class issues show you up to be as narrow-minded as the people you hate so much. Obviously you spend the whole day raving and slavering there in Surrey as you're surrounded by them.
And as my parents grew up working-class, my father a soldier until he left the army and worked his a**e off running his own business, my mother a special needs teacher until she retired, i find it laughable that you assume I'm middle class, is that I don't agree with you?
To be honest, if being bougeois means being as far away from you, then I'm more than happy to take that.
Posted by: John, Oxford on 1:35pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Lou[/bold] wrote:
I just wonder if the police would be as complacent about this if those people who had had their tyres let down decided to let down the tyres of people who own bikes, because the bikes get in their way? I am not condoning that kind of behaviour, but surely if it's ok for one sector of the community to act in this way, then surely it is absolutely fine for others to take the law into their own hands and protest about other things that annoy them. [/quote] Or let down the tyres on police cars that way we could get more plods on the beat , which the citizens have been asking for for a long time , good excersise as well for the tools of the Nulabour fascists .
Or let down all the tyres on the big fright haulage lorries that feed the out of town supermarkets , Tesco , Saisburys et al , they must contribute more to global warming than any other industry - Airfrighted fresh asparagus from peru - very fresh , check out all the crap they sell as "Fresh" , how the hell can it be fresh when it has spent most of its life being frighted around the world , only to pass its sell by date and be put into the big rubbish compactors at the backs of the stores . Bring back local shops for Locla people selling locally grown produce - boycott the big supermarkets if you want to save the planet
Lou wrote:
I just wonder if the police would be as complacent about this if those people who had had their tyres let down decided to let down the tyres of people who own bikes, because the bikes get in their way? I am not condoning that kind of behaviour, but surely if it's ok for one sector of the community to act in this way, then surely it is absolutely fine for others to take the law into their own hands and protest about other things that annoy them.
Or let down the tyres on police cars that way we could get more plods on the beat , which the citizens have been asking for for a long time , good excersise as well for the tools of the Nulabour fascists .
Or let down all the tyres on the big fright haulage lorries that feed the out of town supermarkets , Tesco , Saisburys et al , they must contribute more to global warming than any other industry - Airfrighted fresh asparagus from peru - very fresh , check out all the crap they sell as "Fresh" , how the hell can it be fresh when it has spent most of its life being frighted around the world , only to pass its sell by date and be put into the big rubbish compactors at the backs of the stores . Bring back local shops for Locla people selling locally grown produce - boycott the big supermarkets if you want to save the planet
Posted by: Alan Page, Guildford on 1:44pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]M[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Alan Page[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]M[/bold] wrote: \"Or bourgeois businessmen on junkets blowing Cocaine out of every crevice buggering up the Columbian rainforests? Even the trade in \"Green\" biofuels has done more to damage the enviroment through campaigns of rampant deforestation than anything else. These idiots are so far off the mark they can only be bourgeois.\" Do you just use the word bourgeois so people will think you\'re clever because you can spell it? Don\'t ordinary working class people pollute the environment? Or is it only the people you disdain because they have to wear a tie to work? You numpty. If you\'re so concerned with what\'s happening here in Oxford, why do you live in Guildford? Not the centre of the working class universe last time I had a look.[/quote] Dear oh dear, More middle class piffle!!! Love flinging terms like \"chav\" around but don\'t like to be exposed to the same kind of treatment themselves. So what are you objecting to in my post? Are you saying that the mass consumption of charlie by bourgeois charlies on business junkets is not impacting on the enviroment? Very bourgeois. [/quote] No Alan, you complete Michael, I'm just saying that everyone's as bad as the next person regardless of hopw much money their parents had when they grew up. Your class issues show you up to be as narrow-minded as the people you hate so much. Obviously you spend the whole day raving and slavering there in Surrey as you're surrounded by them. And as my parents grew up working-class, my father a soldier until he left the army and worked his a**e off running his own business, my mother a special needs teacher until she retired, i find it laughable that you assume I'm middle class, is that I don't agree with you? To be honest, if being bougeois means being as far away from you, then I'm more than happy to take that.[/quote] Your parents grew up working class? Oh I see the good old "I have working class ancestry so the fact I kiss bourgeois arse nowadays doesn't make me bourgeois" routine.
The feeling is mutual as regards your final paragraph.
One final question why should the occupants of council estates have to listen and accept bourgeois wisdom as gospel truth? Why should people on £50,000 and over salaries feel they should have any say in the lives of people who don't?
It is fairly clear that the economic gap between bourgeois and chav has expanded owing to this self centred wisdom being followed unquestioningly. It is also true that those who can afford things like private health care have a far greater capacity for risk taking than those who don't, yet expect the latter to follow them like lemmings.
Why? What do the two sides have in common?
M wrote:
Alan Page wrote: M wrote: \"Or bourgeois businessmen on junkets blowing Cocaine out of every crevice buggering up the Columbian rainforests? Even the trade in \"Green\" biofuels has done more to damage the enviroment through campaigns of rampant deforestation than anything else. These idiots are so far off the mark they can only be bourgeois.\" Do you just use the word bourgeois so people will think you\'re clever because you can spell it? Don\'t ordinary working class people pollute the environment? Or is it only the people you disdain because they have to wear a tie to work? You numpty. If you\'re so concerned with what\'s happening here in Oxford, why do you live in Guildford? Not the centre of the working class universe last time I had a look.
Dear oh dear, More middle class piffle!!! Love flinging terms like \"chav\" around but don\'t like to be exposed to the same kind of treatment themselves. So what are you objecting to in my post? Are you saying that the mass consumption of charlie by bourgeois charlies on business junkets is not impacting on the enviroment? Very bourgeois.
No Alan, you complete Michael, I'm just saying that everyone's as bad as the next person regardless of hopw much money their parents had when they grew up. Your class issues show you up to be as narrow-minded as the people you hate so much. Obviously you spend the whole day raving and slavering there in Surrey as you're surrounded by them. And as my parents grew up working-class, my father a soldier until he left the army and worked his a**e off running his own business, my mother a special needs teacher until she retired, i find it laughable that you assume I'm middle class, is that I don't agree with you? To be honest, if being bougeois means being as far away from you, then I'm more than happy to take that.
Your parents grew up working class? Oh I see the good old "I have working class ancestry so the fact I kiss bourgeois arse nowadays doesn't make me bourgeois" routine.
The feeling is mutual as regards your final paragraph.
One final question why should the occupants of council estates have to listen and accept bourgeois wisdom as gospel truth? Why should people on £50,000 and over salaries feel they should have any say in the lives of people who don't?
It is fairly clear that the economic gap between bourgeois and chav has expanded owing to this self centred wisdom being followed unquestioningly. It is also true that those who can afford things like private health care have a far greater capacity for risk taking than those who don't, yet expect the latter to follow them like lemmings.
Why? What do the two sides have in common?
Posted by: Adam, Oxford on 1:47pm Wed 23 Jul 08
If these so-called green guerrillas are serious about making a change, why don't we see them outside travel agents protesting to members of the public choosing to fly abroad for their holidays?
Or is that too much like hard work, and they will have to explain their actions face to face.
Also, I find the complete waste of beans discusting, considering there are people starving in the world...
Now, if everyone donates 4 beans towards world poverty this will amount to a hill of beans!
If these so-called green guerrillas are serious about making a change, why don't we see them outside travel agents protesting to members of the public choosing to fly abroad for their holidays?
Or is that too much like hard work, and they will have to explain their actions face to face.
Also, I find the complete waste of beans discusting, considering there are people starving in the world...
Now, if everyone donates 4 beans towards world poverty this will amount to a hill of beans!
Posted by: M, Oxford on 1:54pm Wed 23 Jul 08
"One final question why should the occupants of council estates have to listen and accept bourgeois wisdom as gospel truth? Why should people on £50,000 and over salaries feel they should have any say in the lives of people who don't?"
People who live on council estates don't have to listen to people who earn £50,000+ per year, and they frequently don't, that's why they're all stabbing each other, pregnant at 16, stealing cars or binge drinking.
But then again, they're not the working classes are they, you have to get up and go to work for that to apply, they're the benefits classes.
The people who earn £50,000+ feel they have a right to an opinion on how taxes are spent as they're the ones paying them, the benefit classes just spend them and contribute little or nothing to modern society except all those things that make this country a joke.
As my lunch break is over now and I have to go back to work, I'll just straighten my tie before I head out into the office to belittle my staff. Ta ta MR page, enjoy the rest of you day down there in oh so working class Surrey!
"One final question why should the occupants of council estates have to listen and accept bourgeois wisdom as gospel truth? Why should people on £50,000 and over salaries feel they should have any say in the lives of people who don't?"
People who live on council estates don't have to listen to people who earn £50,000+ per year, and they frequently don't, that's why they're all stabbing each other, pregnant at 16, stealing cars or binge drinking.
But then again, they're not the working classes are they, you have to get up and go to work for that to apply, they're the benefits classes.
The people who earn £50,000+ feel they have a right to an opinion on how taxes are spent as they're the ones paying them, the benefit classes just spend them and contribute little or nothing to modern society except all those things that make this country a joke.
As my lunch break is over now and I have to go back to work, I'll just straighten my tie before I head out into the office to belittle my staff. Ta ta MR page, enjoy the rest of you day down there in oh so working class Surrey!
Posted by: r and still angry, east oxford on 2:06pm Wed 23 Jul 08
STOP PRESS,
A car has skidded and mounted the Pavement.
Mung Beans everywhere!
STOP PRESS,
A car has skidded and mounted the Pavement.
Mung Beans everywhere!
Posted by: Brooke, Witney on 2:09pm Wed 23 Jul 08
Climate change is a joke made up by people to make a lot of money of of people who are very easily led. I feel sorry that people are targeting people who drive 4x4's most of these cars are less poulouting than some of the hippy wagons that you see about, and also, if you drive the bigger V8 versions they will, if driven carefully, do more MPG's than a toyota prius, the most un-environmentally frendily car there ever was.
Climate change is a joke made up by people to make a lot of money of of people who are very easily led. I feel sorry that people are targeting people who drive 4x4's most of these cars are less poulouting than some of the hippy wagons that you see about, and also, if you drive the bigger V8 versions they will, if driven carefully, do more MPG's than a toyota prius, the most un-environmentally frendily car there ever was.
Posted by: andrew Glynn, oxford on 2:09pm Wed 23 Jul 08
This act of vandalism was no doubt carried out by smug, petty and obviously non-working idiots (didn't have to get up in the morning so they could wander the streets all night pretending to be green warriors.No matter what they do, the planets future will be driven by the grey suited politician/businessm
en.
Would these criminals like it if someone took an axe to their tv or computer with the excuse that it was saving electricity and fossil fuel consumption?
by the way ,i abhor the current vogue for 4x4s as well but it's no excuse for this pathetic behaviour.
This act of vandalism was no doubt carried out by smug, petty and obviously non-working idiots (didn't have to get up in the morning so they could wander the streets all night pretending to be green warriors.No matter what they do, the planets future will be driven by the grey suited politician/businessm
en.
Would these criminals like it if someone took an axe to their tv or computer with the excuse that it was saving electricity and fossil fuel consumption?
by the way ,i abhor the current vogue for 4x4s as well but it's no excuse for this pathetic behaviour.
Posted by: Alan Page, Guildford on 2:10pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]M[/bold] wrote:
"One final question why should the occupants of council estates have to listen and accept bourgeois wisdom as gospel truth? Why should people on £50,000 and over salaries feel they should have any say in the lives of people who don't?" People who live on council estates don't have to listen to people who earn £50,000+ per year, and they frequently don't, that's why they're all stabbing each other, pregnant at 16, stealing cars or binge drinking. But then again, they're not the working classes are they, you have to get up and go to work for that to apply, they're the benefits classes. The people who earn £50,000+ feel they have a right to an opinion on how taxes are spent as they're the ones paying them, the benefit classes just spend them and contribute little or nothing to modern society except all those things that make this country a joke. As my lunch break is over now and I have to go back to work, I'll just straighten my tie before I head out into the office to belittle my staff. Ta ta MR page, enjoy the rest of you day down there in oh so working class Surrey![/quote] Here we see bourgeois logic at its very finest. They really haven't moved on from Malthus have they? (Sorry and obscure reference there, lost on the majority of you I realise.)
If all employers have the same attitude to potential employees then is it little wonder so many remain on benefits?
Well now we have established that M is clearly one of the over £50,000 a year guys, we can decided for ourselves how relevant he is to our everyday lives.
M wrote:
"One final question why should the occupants of council estates have to listen and accept bourgeois wisdom as gospel truth? Why should people on £50,000 and over salaries feel they should have any say in the lives of people who don't?" People who live on council estates don't have to listen to people who earn £50,000+ per year, and they frequently don't, that's why they're all stabbing each other, pregnant at 16, stealing cars or binge drinking. But then again, they're not the working classes are they, you have to get up and go to work for that to apply, they're the benefits classes. The people who earn £50,000+ feel they have a right to an opinion on how taxes are spent as they're the ones paying them, the benefit classes just spend them and contribute little or nothing to modern society except all those things that make this country a joke. As my lunch break is over now and I have to go back to work, I'll just straighten my tie before I head out into the office to belittle my staff. Ta ta MR page, enjoy the rest of you day down there in oh so working class Surrey!
Here we see bourgeois logic at its very finest. They really haven't moved on from Malthus have they? (Sorry and obscure reference there, lost on the majority of you I realise.)
If all employers have the same attitude to potential employees then is it little wonder so many remain on benefits?
Well now we have established that M is clearly one of the over £50,000 a year guys, we can decided for ourselves how relevant he is to our everyday lives.
Posted by: M, Oxford on 2:26pm Wed 23 Jul 08
"Here we see bourgeois logic at its very finest. They really haven't moved on from Malthus have they? (Sorry and obscure reference there, lost on the majority of you I realise.)"
A tad patronising to everybody here, wouldn't you say? Referring to Thomas Malthus are we?
You plank.
Proof positive here that Mr Alan Page believes himself superior to everyone everybody who has commented on this subject and others "lost on the majority of you" I ask you, could you have been more self-aggrandising.
I earn what I earn because I'm good at my job and work hard. Much like the peple who work hard on this newspaper and its website that you so happily use to spout your narrow-minded tripe. Much like all the people who leave their houses every morning to go to their jobs to provide for themselves and their families.
If we feel we live more productive lives than those without the gumption to pull their lazy fingers out of their expanding posteriors and work for a living, rather than sign on, collect their welfare, then drink themselves into a not particularly well-deserved stupor, then I'm happy with that.
You can bang on about the bourgeois all you like Alan, but in the end you're talking rubbish, and luckily most people know that.
"Here we see bourgeois logic at its very finest. They really haven't moved on from Malthus have they? (Sorry and obscure reference there, lost on the majority of you I realise.)"
A tad patronising to everybody here, wouldn't you say? Referring to Thomas Malthus are we?
You plank.
Proof positive here that Mr Alan Page believes himself superior to everyone everybody who has commented on this subject and others "lost on the majority of you" I ask you, could you have been more self-aggrandising.
I earn what I earn because I'm good at my job and work hard. Much like the peple who work hard on this newspaper and its website that you so happily use to spout your narrow-minded tripe. Much like all the people who leave their houses every morning to go to their jobs to provide for themselves and their families.
If we feel we live more productive lives than those without the gumption to pull their lazy fingers out of their expanding posteriors and work for a living, rather than sign on, collect their welfare, then drink themselves into a not particularly well-deserved stupor, then I'm happy with that.
You can bang on about the bourgeois all you like Alan, but in the end you're talking rubbish, and luckily most people know that.
Posted by: Steve, Oxford on 2:30pm Wed 23 Jul 08
Pathetic, Pathetic. This just goes to show what a loony lot the Green Party, Mr Phelps and co are.
I will never vote for them now. I don't own a 4x4 but this is childish and pointless. Someone who owns a 4x4 might only use it rarely, but someone who owns a Nissan Micra might do more mileage, so the Micra is producing more emissions. What about all the boy/girl racers with those illegal custom exhausts. Why don't they target them? The Greens have truly lost the plot.
Pathetic, Pathetic. This just goes to show what a loony lot the Green Party, Mr Phelps and co are.
I will never vote for them now. I don't own a 4x4 but this is childish and pointless. Someone who owns a 4x4 might only use it rarely, but someone who owns a Nissan Micra might do more mileage, so the Micra is producing more emissions. What about all the boy/girl racers with those illegal custom exhausts. Why don't they target them? The Greens have truly lost the plot.
Posted by: Anon on 3:16pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]John[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Lou[/bold] wrote: I just wonder if the police would be as complacent about this if those people who had had their tyres let down decided to let down the tyres of people who own bikes, because the bikes get in their way? I am not condoning that kind of behaviour, but surely if it's ok for one sector of the community to act in this way, then surely it is absolutely fine for others to take the law into their own hands and protest about other things that annoy them. [/quote] Or let down the tyres on police cars that way we could get more plods on the beat , which the citizens have been asking for for a long time , good excersise as well for the tools of the Nulabour fascists . Or let down all the tyres on the big fright haulage lorries that feed the out of town supermarkets , Tesco , Saisburys et al , they must contribute more to global warming than any other industry - Airfrighted fresh asparagus from peru - very fresh , check out all the crap they sell as "Fresh" , how the hell can it be fresh when it has spent most of its life being frighted around the world , only to pass its sell by date and be put into the big rubbish compactors at the backs of the stores . Bring back local shops for Locla people selling locally grown produce - boycott the big supermarkets if you want to save the planet [/quote] Finally someone with a little comon sense!!! I have to totally agree!
John wrote:
Lou wrote: I just wonder if the police would be as complacent about this if those people who had had their tyres let down decided to let down the tyres of people who own bikes, because the bikes get in their way? I am not condoning that kind of behaviour, but surely if it's ok for one sector of the community to act in this way, then surely it is absolutely fine for others to take the law into their own hands and protest about other things that annoy them.
Or let down the tyres on police cars that way we could get more plods on the beat , which the citizens have been asking for for a long time , good excersise as well for the tools of the Nulabour fascists . Or let down all the tyres on the big fright haulage lorries that feed the out of town supermarkets , Tesco , Saisburys et al , they must contribute more to global warming than any other industry - Airfrighted fresh asparagus from peru - very fresh , check out all the crap they sell as "Fresh" , how the hell can it be fresh when it has spent most of its life being frighted around the world , only to pass its sell by date and be put into the big rubbish compactors at the backs of the stores . Bring back local shops for Locla people selling locally grown produce - boycott the big supermarkets if you want to save the planet
Finally someone with a little comon sense!!! I have to totally agree!
Posted by: Ninja, On the right side of the river on 3:22pm Wed 23 Jul 08
[quote][bold]John[/bold] wrote:
So Counciller Sid Felcher finds 4x4s causing global warming inconvienient - the man is an idiot . The working classes flying to Spain by BMI or easy jet contribute more to global warming than than all the 4x4s in the UK . Why not let the tyres down on all the aircraft at heathrow . [/quote] Oooh, now there's an idea!
There's some great iddeas for 'what next' on this page, thanks guys!
John wrote:
So Counciller Sid Felcher finds 4x4s causing global warming inconvienient - the man is an idiot . The working classes flying to Spain by BMI or easy jet contribute more to global warming than than all the 4x4s in the UK . Why not let the tyres down on all the aircraft at heathrow .
Oooh, now there's an idea!
There's some great iddeas for 'what next' on this page, thanks guys!
Posted by: DanOxford on 3:38pm Wed 23 Jul 08
Alan Page is a paleosocialist- a dinosaur who is doomed to spend his final years on the planet thrashing around in his ow
